vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
100520-is-this-really-how-you-wanted-your-customers-to-feel
Content ---- ---- ---- Sorry i dont really feel any sympathy for that guy that lost 1p, maybe if it was arch or tech then yah i might feel bad. AFAIK anything requiring a core has controllable RNG like weaponsmith, armor, tailor, and outfitting. You can take out the random element by NOT overcharging and accepting the slightly lower stats. That guy chose to gamble and he lost, he had to option to not gamble and go for a 100% guaranteed craft but he didnt. When i craft gear i'll overcharge it to a level that i feel is acceptable. If i have 300 leather and 20 power cores i'll overcharge to 10-15% failure rate i think the highest i've ever gone is in the high teens or it might have been low 20's i forget. But i can afford a few 18-21% failures that are not successful since i had so many mats. But when i buy 2 thick bone that are priced at 3g each (low tier mat and me being poor) i dont want to risk any failures, not even a 1% chance to fail so i bump the power to the limit and no higher and i take the lower stat. Quite simply it's a gamble, but you arent forced to do it. If you *do* decide to gamble and you lose then thats too bad. | |} ---- ---- ---- It's the first one I've played where you can get 20+ successful crafts and still fail because the god of slots decided to spite you | |} ---- ---- A 1p power core is probably a dual hybrid (or just dual in general) which isnt craftable. | |} ---- I know, but people generally don't have the money to craft dozens of those anyway. :P So I was talking about bulk craft cores, which require a large number of crafter failures to be viable merchandise. I guess they could allow better RNG rolls for the very expensive, uncraftable cores though. ...also it was mostly a joke post. But with a grain of truth. | |} ---- ---- These more expensive uncraftable cores offer higher levels at which you can safely pump stats. It also allows higher levels at which you can overcharge as well, so... they do allow better RNG. A normal hybrid power core could have a 10% fail rate at a certain stat value, while a dual could have a 2% fail rate for the same stat amount. But you can also overcharge duals to the full 30%, which is a higher stat level than a normal hybrid's 30%. You'll still have that 30% chance that it will break and you'll lose all materials. It is far less RNG than a lot of games, where people would pump stats to one-in-thousands chances to succeed. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ^ that's pretty much it, in a nutshell. I think it's unfortunate the OP's buddy is frustrated, but you pays your money and you takes your chances. | |} ---- ---- ---- And the market adjusts until risk is accounted for in the value of the item. Working as intended (and I think it's great). BiS: high risk, high cost Near BiS: low risk high cost, or, high risk low cost Adequate: low risk low cost ^^ We get to make our own decisions. The OPs mate made thiers and came out second best. To be honest if they made that decision and couldn't afford it (ie. 1p was a lot of money to them) then they should have gone with a lower risk/cost option. Time and time again Carbine have stated that these kinds of decisions are what they want the players to be making. You want to eek out that 99th percentile? Best be prepared to sacrifice some value (time, plat, RL cash, whatever) for it. I personally love this mindset; it makes the rewards when you get them all the more sweeter. | |} ---- Additives are definitely a different animal than circuit board crafting overcharge. | |} ---- And if you made starloom cloth as rare as the trigger fingers amp the market would adjust to that as well. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. My point is that no one will want stuff that isn't overcharged, meaning that, effectively, gear crafting comes with an inherent 30% chance to fail. I don't really care about the unfortunate guy in the OP, he knew how it worked, but just because it's his own fault doesn't count as a plus for the current system. Novacite-Starshard power core also only have like 10% higher charge than Refined, which likely means (if there's anywhere you can test-craft items on the web to find this out I'd be very interested btw) that a non-charged Novacite-Starshard is downright worse than a fully overcharged refined. Non-overcharged basically isn't a thing unless you're multi-crafting to salvage. | |} ---- agreed, i try to keep my overcharges in the 5% range, of course I'm only making gear for myself | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- WoW crafting doesn't require Raid drops these days, just daily production of materials. | |} ---- But you are applyuing the old wow mindset where you need to min-max the bajesus out of your gear because a lot of the hard encounters are simply gear checks where you are rocking upwards of 80% dps uptime - therefore you NEED to min-max to win. WS from what I understand of the design, and from what I have experienced (the latter being a long way from end game mind), is very much different. I have mainly healed in dungeons so hard to comment on dps/taking, but my uptime for brute HPS is very low, I spend most of the fight co-ordinating and dealing with fight mechanics. This means that the min-max mindset of WoW is less relevant here. Yes that extra few stat points will give you an advantage on the target dummy, but it is heavily outweighed by player ability in real encounters and you don't need to overcharge. TL;DR: In wow I would agree that this system would lead to inherent over-charging when crafting, but in WS min-maxing is less relevant and therefore it, to me, is not an inherent requirement. | |} ---- Overcharge part of the craft is relevant but pales in comparison to the true crafting RNG which is rune slots. Crafting an item that will sell on the AH or end up salvaged/vendored often depends more on the runes rolled than a few more stat points. | |} ---- ---- You take that DCUO phrase and get the hell out of here :D . haha...god you had to say it didn't you Kroye. You just had to...sigh. Come back to Stormtalon so I can /pimpslap your toon for that. lol | |} ---- I'm struggling to respond to this post because your ideas just seem so un-intuitive. Gear is the MAIN progress path for your character, OF COURSE you want to optimize your gear. It's watching little numbers go up, it's a basic part of human psychology games have abused for decades. The idea that because the upgrade is less noticeable somehow causes people to pick whatever and go 'eh close enough' is ludicrous. In fact, it'll probably make people even MORE inclined to dump as many stats into their gear as they can to see their numbers go up. In fact, you can try an experiment. Try asking a spellslinger if they want a ) Pants with 110 finesse, 12 moxie, 12 crit rating or, b ) Pants with 125 fineese, 24 moxie, 20 crit rating given they have the same amount of rune slots. Try noting down how many say 'eh whatever, either is fine'. | |} ---- Yeah most Asian MMO Grinders love failing crafts that break the item or gives it a - if its +8 or whatever to begin with. (resets to 0!) | |} ---- ---- i right i totaly forgot abut that, in AION if you had a piece or armor or weapon with 5 or 6 slots and wanted to put Runes(?) in them the chance of failing increased by ~15% for each rune. if it failed ALL runes got removed, and these were realy expensive sometimes. | |} ---- Haha, of course asking that question would be a dead certainty. However if you amend it slightly: Mr spell slinger would you like: a) Pants with 110 finesse, 12 moxie, 12 crit rating; this will cost you somewhere between 20-30g; this item will enable you to do 6.0% more dps than your current gear averaged over a vet dungeon, or, b) Pants with 125 fineese, 24 moxie, 20 crit rating; this will cost you somewhere between 2-10p; this item will enable you to do 6.1% more dps than your current gear averaged over a vet dungeon. Note: both items are blue, and look identical when equipped. Now of course 6.1% could be 150%, I don't know; but you get my point right? Stats simply aren't the be all and end all of this game. It may be about target dummy dps at the very high end, but at the very high end they will be happy to dump 100's of plat on BiS gear so it's moot. The majority of the player base can (and should) make their own decision (and not get all teary and log off in a pseudo rage). | |} ---- ---- Yes, if you amend the scenario to serve your argument, your argument seems more rational, big surprise there. The problem with your amended argument is that the vast majority of items don't cost a whole lot to make. Those pants for example are based on the Skurgeborn Darkweave pants, which costs about 7-8g in mats. If you want good rune slots you'll probably craft half a hundred of these. If you are buying off the AH that is the step you pay for. The cost associated with the overcharge is negligible, taking the price per craft to about 10-11g. So what, I can sell the ones with bad rune slots for 50g. Over hundreds of crafts then it becomes a bearable but pointless overhead expense. I'm not risking anything. And that is the point. | |} ---- Firstly I amended it because you forgot to include half the equation (the cost of choosing the better option). And my numbers were illustrative. My numbers were aimed at the OPs example. Secondly I have purposefully ignored runes in my argument because it is out of the scope of this discussion. The OP was complaining about item failures. I actually fully agree that rune RNG should be removed (I would suggest adding a element input into the circuit board). Finally I think we have both lost sight of the point of our argument lol. I think I need to find a real example to make my point as illustrations aren't cutting it (my point being that maxing out overcharge isnt inherent/assumed/default). | |} ---- ----